Which PC Components to Upgrade? [Help!]

[hesonly5]

It's only so Iced can up his post count ;)

[Guest RB26DETT]

No problem, I spend a lot of time wishing I had a better computer and checking out new parts on the internet so I learn alot by just reading the product spec and if I don't know something asking someone on MSN or reading up about it.

 

one year ago i didn't know jack about computers and just played games. eventually i signed up on Computerforum and learned everything there, looks like i still have to learn a bit more.

[Iced_Bullet]

No, we have different opinions and are on different PCs :p Geek much?! Anyway saying that is boosting PC ;)

[hesonly5]

No, we have different opinions and are on different PCs :p Geek much?! Anyway saying that is boosting PC ;)

 

So wait, you're sat next to each other, on the internet on different computers :oook:

[Iced_Bullet]

Yup lol :p It was easier to look at different PC parts that way :)

[hesonly5]

Surely its pointless being at his house? XD

[Iced_Bullet]

No, easier :) Anyway we finished our maths exam this morning and we walk the same way for 70% of it, so I carried on with him :)

[hesonly5]

Still weird. Or maybe it's just 'cause I'm unsociable :p

[AdamFraser]

Just whatever the hell you do dont skimp on bloody PSU's!!! Please!

[kalniel]

But hey, if any of you guys can find indentical products at cheaper prices elsewhere then feel free to give links. Overclockers.co.uk tends to be the best prices though and buying all from same place saves on P&P

P&P is free at SCAN if you register with Hexus, several of the components are cheaper at SCAN too, and the 3870 isn't a very good graphics card choice - even the 9600GT beats it, but he should be able to afford a 8800GT which is better still.

 

Also you don't need a heatsink and thermal paste as the CPU you listed already comes with all of those. The retail cooler is fine and pretty quiet already, a third party cooler might be quieter still, but the case you list is pretty loud anyway so you wouldn't notice the difference.

[Sensei]

Still weird. Or maybe it's just 'cause I'm unsociable :p

 

Probably <3~

 

P&P is free at SCAN if you register with Hexus, several of the components are cheaper at SCAN too, and the 3870 isn't a very good graphics card choice - even the 9600GT beats it, but he should be able to afford a 8800GT which is better still.

 

SCAN's website, no offense to them, is shoddy and overclockers is more reliable in my opinion since it's a dedicated PC specialist website.

 

The 9600GT is really bad, compared to the 8800GT which is cheaper now so suggesting it is a bad idea.

 

Would you like to enlighten me how a 8800GT will perform better compared to the HD3870XT please, take a look at this for instance:

 

BLUE[8800GT]

GREEN[HD3870XT]

Core running at 600MHz

Core running at 800MHz

 

GDDR3 Memory running at 1800MHz

GDDR4 Memory running at 2300MHz

 

112 Stream Processors

320 Stream Processors

 

Also the ATI cards will support the Shader Model 4.1 and DX10.1 which are both yet to be released.

 

Also you don't need a heatsink and thermal paste as the CPU you listed already comes with all of those. The retail cooler is fine and pretty quiet already, a third party cooler might be quieter still, but the case you list is pretty loud anyway so you wouldn't notice the difference.

 

I didn't know they came with stock heatsinks and paste, saves £20~25 eh =]

[Speed]

BLUE[8800GT]

GREEN[HD3870XT]

Core running at 600MHz

Core running at 800MHz

 

GDDR3 Memory running at 1800MHz

GDDR4 Memory running at 2300MHz

 

112 Stream Processors

320 Stream Processors

 

I'm clearly missing something, but why have you written BLUE at the top, them made it yellow, and then GREEN and made it red?

 

If it's just the colour of the card, is being green an important feature.

 

I mean I'm a fan of the environment as much as the next person, but a green graphics card seems over the top :rolleyes:

[Sensei]

It was me messing around with people's heads. Seemed to work. No relevance at all.

 

Also @ Kalniel I read your post on the atari EU forum and in response to your comment about the GDDR4 vs GDDR3 memory and I have found out that GDDR4 memory model can handle larger amounts of bandwidth and this is the reason the memory and core clocks are clocked so high to 800/2300. This makes the card perform much better on graphically intensive games due to the increased speed of data transfer.

 

Correct me if I am wrong. But I did a little research and found out that GDDR4 is advantageous but only by a little. Sources:

 

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/251276-15-major-difference-gddr3-gddr4-versions-3870

and

http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getarticle&number=4&artpage=2554&articID=572

 

The second link provides conclusive thoughts that the GDDR4 isn't a great advantage. In the end, for Iced, it'll probably be a decision between an ATI card or a nVidia card (HD3870XT or 8800GT) and the 8800GT is cheaper.

 

Also, as a side note: I'm being a complete hypocrite un-intentionally here because I am getting 2 8800GTs when I build my new system.

[Iced_Bullet]

He's just done more research and found the difference (GDDR4 / GDDR3) isn't really relevant :) So, not it's a choice between ATi or nVidia 8800GT

[Camel]

It was me messing around with people's heads. Seemed to work. No relevance at all.

 

Also @ Kalniel I read your post on the atari EU forum and in response to your comment about the GDDR4 vs GDDR3 memory and I have found out that GDDR4 memory model can handle larger amounts of bandwidth and this is the reason the memory and core clocks are clocked so high to 800/2300. This makes the card perform much better on graphically intensive games due to the increased speed of data transfer.

 

Correct me if I am wrong. But I did a little research and found out that GDDR4 is advantageous.

 

It is also new and has flaws to it, GDDR3 is more stable overall and also will run cooler allowing for more space when overclocking

[Sensei]

Read last post, has been editted~

[Iced_Bullet]

Found this chart quite handy :)

 

Ignore the price, as it's based on American. Looks like I'll have to go for the 8800GT and not the 3870.

 

[Article]

 

[kalniel]

SCAN's website, no offense to them, is shoddy and overclockers is more reliable in my opinion since it's a dedicated PC specialist website.

Er, SCAN are dedicated PC specialists too - look at the awards they've won too.

 

The 9600GT is really bad, compared to the 8800GT which is cheaper now so suggesting it is a bad idea.

The 9600GT performs better than the 3870.. so it can't be that bad. It's not far behind the 8800GT either.

 

Would you like to enlighten me how a 8800GT will perform better compared to the HD3870XT please, take a look at this for instance:

 

BLUE[8800GT]

GREEN[HD3870XT]

 

Core running at 600MHz

Core running at 800MHz

 

GDDR3 Memory running at 1800MHz

GDDR4 Memory running at 2300MHz

 

112 Stream Processors

320 Stream Processors

Do you actually know anything about computer components? By your reckoning are you saying a 3.6ghz P4 is faster than a 2.0ghz Core 2 Duo?

 

It's not just a numbers game and in anycase the shader core of the 8800GT actually runs at ~1500mhz, not 600.

 

Why are you comparing full stream processors on the 8800GT to sub-stream processors on the 3870? If you're going to compare like for like the figure is either 448 for the 8800GT substream or 64 for the 3870 full stream. In both cases the 8800GT wins.

 

What about TMUs/ROP/Z fill? The 8800GT wins out easily in those counts, and they are far more important.

 

Also the ATI cards will support the Shader Model 4.1 and DX10.1 which are both yet to be released.

When any game fully supports those then maybe it'll be worth getting, but for now all game developers and microsoft have both said it's pointless.

 

 

Also @ Kalniel I read your post on the atari EU forum and in response to your comment about the GDDR4 vs GDDR3 memory and I have found out that GDDR4 memory model can handle larger amounts of bandwidth and this is the reason the memory and core clocks are clocked so high to 800/2300. This makes the card perform much better on graphically intensive games due to the increased speed of data transfer.

Wow the memory has a slightly higher clock.. which does absolutely nothing when your GPU performance is so far behind anyway. It's like sticking XDR ram on a P4 and comparing it to DDR on an opteron.

 

Please show me some meaningful benchmarks where the 3870 even comes close to the 8800GT and I will let your comment '"This makes the card perform much better on graphically intensive games" stand, otherwise it's just inaccurate.

[Sensei]

Oh please, does no-one on this forum read other people's posts. Here let me repost it for you.

 

Correct me if I am wrong. But I did a little research and found out that GDDR4 is advantageous but only by a little. Sources:

 

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/251276-15-major-difference-gddr3-gddr4-versions-3870

and

http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getarticle&number=4&artpage=2554&articID=572

 

The second link provides conclusive thoughts that the GDDR4 isn't a great advantage. In the end, for Iced, it'll probably be a decision between an ATI card or a nVidia card (HD3870XT or 8800GT) and the 8800GT is cheaper.

 

Also, as a side note: I'm being a complete hypocrite un-intentionally here because I am getting 2 8800GTs when I build my new system.

 

As I said it isn't a great advantage and isn't even worth bringing into the equation when deciding which card is better. nVidia have a better reputation for making cards that perform really well and (again, AS I ALREADY SAID) I'll be getting to 8800GTs when I make my new system so I'm not that keen to make the ATI card look good, your posts come across as if you're slating me for being an ATI fanboy when infact I would never use an ATI card again.

 

the shader core of the 8800GT actually runs at ~1500mhz, not 600.

 

Actually the shader core is separate, the GPU core on the 8800 IS actually at 600Mhz. Learn to read again please, let me link you to the OEM 8800GT from OcUk:

>> Click <<

 

And to your point about the clocks, the ATI card clocks are much higher and the reason I didn't include the 1500Mhz shader clock on the nVidia card is because the ATI card doesn't have specs for one so there was nothing to compare it with, another advantage for the 8800GT. Now, the clocks being at higher speeds might not mean much when you start delving into what types of technology all the individual parts of the card are using and it could turn out to be a case of "Indeed, this is running 500Mhz faster but it's using older technology." Same as with a 3.6GHz P4 CPU and a 2GHz C2D, there's just no competition with the new 45nm technology and other things that help new techs to work faster.

 

All in all, don't make retarded assumptions about people again

[mod edit:] Please watch your language !

[sensei edit:] But why? Is it running away ? =O

[ScaR]

This motherboard: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-235-AS will not allow you to have SLi. You have to have a nForce chipset motherboard to be able to run SLi. It might run crossfire, but that's it.

[kalniel]

your posts come across as if you're slating me for being an ATI fanboy when infact I would never use an ATI card again.

Where have I said anything about you being an ATI fanboy or even anything close to that. And you're telling *me* I need to read? :p

 

Actually the shader core is separate, the GPU core on the 8800 IS actually at 600Mhz.

And which is more important?

 

And to your point about the clocks, the ATI card clocks are much higher and the reason I didn't include the 1500Mhz shader clock on the nVidia card is because the ATI card doesn't have specs for one so there was nothing to compare it with

Again you don't seem to be terribly knowledgable. The ATI shader clock is 800mhz.

 

This motherboard: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-235-AS will not allow you to have SLi. You have to have a nForce chipset motherboard to be able to run SLi. It might run crossfire, but that's it.

That's not a bad thing. SLI doesn't really serve any point other than bragging. Unless you are right at the very (and very expensive) top of the technology tree then it's better to get a fast single card than two in SLI. When that single card isn't fast enough it's better to sell it and replace it again with another single card.

[Iced_Bullet]

This motherboard: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-235-AS will not allow you to have SLi. You have to have a nForce chipset motherboard to be able to run SLi. It might run crossfire, but that's it.

OK, could you suggest another one ... :| Please :)

 

@Others, lmao once again my PC thread has turned into a debate :p I remember when I was asking for my help between the 6600GT and the x1950GT :p That turned into a 3/4 page debate before I got bored of the emails and asked for it to be closed haha!

[kalniel]

OK, could you suggest another one ... :| Please :)

That motherboard is fine, but if you don't want it, just look for any other p35 chipset - that's the best performance-for-the-money chipset, especially when you take reliablity and temperature into consideration.

[Iced_Bullet]

These do Sli (gotta decide if I really want the Sli feature, but I might aswell have it unless it's lots more expensive ... )?

 

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-242-AS&groupid=701&catid=5&subcat=913&name=Asus%20P5K%20SE%20Intel%20P35%20(Socket%20775)%20PCI-Express%20DDR2%20Motherboard

 

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=MB-266-AS&groupid=701&catid=5&subcat=913&name=Asus%20P5K%20Pro%20Intel%20P35%20(Socket%20775)%20PCI-Express%20DDR2%20Motherboard

 

It appears in both, the power lead is in a stupid place, making the wires stretch to their limit ?? :(

 

I really don't know what I'm looking for :p

[kalniel]

Actually having a socket on that side is closer to the PSU exit where the cables come out. Otherwise you have to route it over the CPU heatsink/fan.

 

My first choice for a premium motherboard would be this one:

http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=605524

 

Though there are also some other varients that would work fine as well.

 

Also if you want the maximum choice then wait a few weeks - a new generation of motherboards (p45) and GPUs are coming out soon.