Driving age to raise to 18

[Nodz86]

They want to raise the legal age from 17 to 18 and propose a minimum of a years learning to drive as well as a zero limit on alchol whilst driving and no passengers for people under 20 from 11pm to 5am. This is because 27% of young drivers have accidents in there 1st year of driving.

 

From Top Gear

As if young drivers weren't punished enough with high insurance premiums and an inexplicable desire to festoon their cars with neon lights and plastic bodykits, a group of MPs has suggested that the legal driving age should be raised to 18.

 

The House of Commons Transport Committee has issued a report that also recommends a minimum 12-month period for learner drivers to take more lessons before taking the test.

 

"You have to remember that 27 per cent of drivers between 17 and 19 are involved in a road accident in their first year," said Philip Hollobone, a member of the committee. "That's a shocking statistic."

 

As well as raising the driving age, the committee proposes a zero alcohol limit for new drivers, and a prohibition on carrying passengers between 11pm and 5am, meaning you won't be able to give your mates a lift home any more.

 

It's difficult to argue with the statistics behind the suggestions - more than half of drivers killed at night are under 25 - but we can't see the proposals finding much approval among disaffected British yoof of today.

 

The Department for Transport has also recently proposed its own measures for dealing with young drivers: teaching road safety in schools alongside maths and science.

School uniforms? They'll all be fluorescent yellow soon.

 

 

[iBilo]

What is this world getting into?

[Nodz86]

Its not this world its the overpaid pen pushers who make our lifes hell by using the most dangerous 2 words in the English Language "Health and Safety".

[Nipper]

Health and Safety my left buttcheek

 

i have always hated Health and Safety, when i was workin in a garage i never even read the Health and Safety guidelines, simply cos they are all common sense anyway...

 

i mean, anyone stupid enough to stand underneath the car lift while its moving shouldnt be anywhere near a garage, or other people for that matter

[Baxie]

In Denmark, the legal age for driving is 18 years. You are required by law to have had at least 24 driving lessons before you can take the driving test which, I've heard, is the hardest in Europe. When you do acquire your license, you have two strikes for three years. Running a red light, speeding at a certain percentage, hazardous maneuvering and such breaks of the trafficlaws result in one strike. Driving with more than .5 alcohol in your blood results in one strike. More than 1.0 results in withdrawal of licens in a period of two years to indefinetely. After having had your license for three years. Your strikes goes to three. After having driven without breaking the law for three years. You regain clean status of three strikes.

 

Speedlimits are 31 mph in towns, 50 on country roads, 70 on freeways if indicated by signs. If not it is 80 mph. The police are only using mobile speedcameras and regularly change positions at 4 hour intervals making any sort of warning shortlived and useless.

 

This being said, here in DK 70 percent of all accidents are caused by young people in the agegroup of 18-24. 57% of all these accidents result in bodily harm. 15% of the accidents had alcohol involved. 67% of which had a bloodalcohol of 1.61 or more.

 

With all due respect to the people in that agegroup here, the people in this agegroup tend to disregard trafficlaws and endanger the lives of other people.

 

Let me tell you a story I covered last year for the paper.

 

APril 15th 2006 a 27 year old man was walking his 6-month old daughter in the babycarriage. He was obeying traffic-laws and walked against the direction of cars on a country road which is limited to 80 kilometres an hour. (50 mph) However, the road has very poor vision because it climbs and falls a lot.

 

This day a 19-year old boy and his 18 year old friend was driving a Ford Sierra Cosworth and estimated speeds of around 180 kilometres an hour. This is more than twice the allowed speedlimit and more than 30 mph more than allowed anywhere in this country. Cresting a hill, the car left the road and hit the 27 year old father and the babycarriage directly on. The 6-month old baby was sent flying through the air and landed more than 30 metres away from road, the man was dragged under the car which managed to stop after more than 200 metres in a field. Paramedics were called to the scene and arrive after less than 20 minutes. The 27-year old died few minutes later, but they worked on the baby for more than an hour and a half before giving up CPR.

 

The 19-year old and 18 year old were unharmed.

 

As the driver was tried for vehicular manslaughter his defense was this:

 

"I would not have hit him and the baby-carriage if he wasn't deaf. Then he would have heard me coming."

 

You want to make fun of Health and Safety? Try interviewing a 26 year old mother who just lost her husband and child because someone thought that the trafficlaws didn't apply to them.

 

You blame the "overpaid penpusher"? Why not blame those who are too stupid to realize that they are endangering the lives innocent people for ****s and giggles. Those moronic enough to drink before they drive. Those that thing the rules are idiotic and doesn't apply to them.

 

All these people should be dragged out to see what I saw that day. A mother witnessing the death of her husband and having to see three paramedics trying to keep her 6-month old alive. A blood trail more than 100 metres long on the street.

 

The sad thing is, that this 19-year old saw all these things, and he didn't learn a thing.

 

These are the people you should blame. The "overpaid penpushers" are merely trying to keep me and my family alive. If this means that you cannot drive a car till you're twenty. Fine by me. Those that so desperately want a drivers license are the ones most likely to cause accidents.

 

If you can prevent just ONE death by raising the legal age for driving to 20 it is well worth it. And you complain about it going from 17 to 18?

 

Sheesh.

[The Queen]

Does anyone know when this will come in to affect if it does get through?

[craigie]

there are many points that should be considered here. For example with the latest expansion of pub opening hours, young people (especially) are now allowed to drink until the early hours of the morning. If they are not allowed to catch a lift with a (usually) sober mate, how are they supposed to get home? Bus? possibly, taxi? doubt it. Some people may decide to drive whilst drunk or under the influence and what does this do? push up the accident and death rate.

 

the government have spent years encouraging youth to catch lifts back with a sober mate, has this now been gone back on?

 

another point is that young ladies between the age of 18 to 21 will now be left driving around at night alone. Clever idea? Does it make them any safer? i think not.

 

clever our goverment is.

[Baxie]

Craigie. Your point is well taken. Governments do not always make the best arguments, nor do they disregard public opinion in order to do what is right.

 

Politics are tricky, and the people best able to govern are the ones who do not care about public sentiments. It is always an election year.

 

I will never downplay the importance of safety for young people on any level. Longer pub hours has never been a problem here in Denmark where most places close at either 2 am or 6 am. Our percentage of rapes are below global average.

 

Parents, as well as young people, need to be trained to handle these things. The day I get a daughter or a son, I will commit myself to driving late hours to pick them up whereever they are, if they need to. Rather this, than get in a car with a friend who has been drinking, or even worse... they themselves have been.

 

Don't get me wrong. I know several people in the age of 18-24 who are responsible, levelheaded people who would never drink and drive or disregard speedlimits.

 

My objection is to those who think that politicians are to blame for them not being able to drive till they are 18. Those that deserve blame are the ones who ruin it for everyone else. And believe me when I say this at age 31: Age does grant experience.

 

Politicians are usually fuelled by the need and urge to do, what they see best for the society. And while Health and Safety might seem a joke, the existance is based on a direct need.

 

Again, your points are duly noted, and while it does raise a genuine concern, to have young people moving around alone at night, yelling at Parliament is not the way to go.

 

As I said before. One life is enough to pay for that one extra year till young british people get to drive. And reality is, that it isn't just one life. It is several.

 

All you need to do is look in your family and consider this: These people that you love, they travel on the same streets as the drunk and the irresponsible. Will you trade getting a drivers license at 17 for the life of one of your parents? Or siblings?

 

Remember, that for every car accident caused by a person above 25, seven others occur. Who is to say who is safe and who isn't?

[Nodz86]

Nipper I completely agree with you there, thats why we should ban them claim ads on TV because as long as people can sue someone for an accident or mistake, H+S will continue to go crazy because people are trying to cover their backs so they don't get sued.

 

at TheScottishSpotter, they are trying to push it through parliment so they will have to vote draw up white papers etc etc, so if it does get passed it will probably take a year. Even though it mens you couldn't legally drive a car on your own at 17 you could still learn as you would need a years tuition.

 

craigie your first post has the same Idea I had how can you get home of a night if you all went out in one car?? by them doing this means you would all have to take your own car, which in tur causes more congestion and polution, which again is defying everythin else

they are trying to do. Also you would have to stick to a non alcohlic beverages.

 

The point that also gets me is why they say young drivers, surely they should say new drivers as someone who passes there test at say 30 will have as much driving experiance as a young driver therefore are as likely to have an accident, but then I suppose they would see him as a calmer driver who deos not take risks as he is older, which could be true or might not be.

 

Baxie some of the stuff your goverment does are the same as what our goverment does. Like the the mobile speed camera's and they move every few hours and they can point the camera so the get you comin towards them or once you've past them and they tend to park in dodgy places like behind trees etc so you don't see them, even though the govermant said thay had to be visable and display a camera sign on the back of the van, few of them do.

 

We also have the same speed limits on the roads apart from it tends to be 60mph on country roads and we don't have the 80mph limit, we also have the 2year probabtion period for young drivers, your only allowed 6points which is say 2 speeding offences at 3 points each or dangerous driving which is 6 points if you get to the limit you loose your lisence and have to take a retest and if you pass the probabtion period the points you are allowed goes up from 6 to 12.

 

I also can see where your coming from about with experiance comes with age and that sad story about the man and his baby, in that case it was the kids fault and should have the book thrown at them but, the trouble with statistics is, is how many of them accidents was a young drivers fault?? Ok they may have been involved but it does not mean they have caused it and that tends to be the trouble with statistics they don't show the true story.

 

Also that story also brings on the arguement of why make cars that go 150mph when the speed limit is 70mph and/or why let new/young drivers have high powered cars before they are say 25 etc. Thats something that I don't really want to see happen as we all love fast cars but some would still argue that.

[TOPGEAR DOG]

And they wonder why ppl drive without a license????

[Marc_CRX]

Good!

 

just be Glad you guys in England dont have 'R' plates, we HAVE to display them for a year after passing our test and you cant go over 45mph, but mine came off in september :D

So Glad Im 21 :excited:

[Nodz86]

Good!

 

just be Glad you guys in England dont have 'R' plates, we HAVE to display them for a year after passing our test and you cant go over 45mph, but mine came off in september :D

So Glad Im 21 :excited:

 

Me to I'm 21 in spetember so it wont affect me, but I still think that some of the rules they are planning are a bit unfair.

 

We have green L or P plates but its optional to display them and most driving instructors tell you not because they say "if you do you'll only get grief from other drivers".

[Rollin in an STi]

well, i know here in the States, or here in Connecticut in perticular... You can get a driving Permit @ age 16. BUT, you are only allowed to drive with an adult or parental figure with you @ all times. when you get your permit, you must wait at least 6 months to b4 going for the drivers' liscence test. but b4 you do, you need to have had training behind the wheel, wether it be through classes, or the Adult/Partn teaching you.

 

EDIT: almost forgot. if you dont go for a Driver's Permit, you have to be 18 to take the test.

 

i took my 'Permit' test through my High school, and was able to schedule driving lessions through the program. going through the program, let my permit mature after only 4 months, instead of the normal 6. so i was happy about taking the classes (though they were after school, and felt like detention. lol, man i hated school)

 

when i got my Driver's Liscence, i hadnt even turned 17 yet. :D i passed my test with flying colors. (the test consists of a 16 question, multiple choice quiz, before the driving part of the test. you dont have to answer all 16, just as long as you got 12 right, you passed. most of them were common sense, but it was better to study anyways. :) )

 

i believe the Connecticut drivers liscence, you get 10 'points' b4 you loose it. each infraction varies on the severity of the offense. i.e.: when a school bus is stopped picking up children (and the Flashing STOP sign is on) i think thats an 8 point offense, if i remember my study material right. speeding is 3 or 4 points depending on how fast your going over the limit. running a red light, or not stoping @ a stop sign i think isnt as bad as speeding or the school bus thing.

 

 

 

i almost lost my liscence last year. lol. my first speeding ticket (November of 2003) was for going ALMOST double the posted limit. 69mph in a 35 zone. man was i lucky to not have been doing 70, or else i wouldve been 'cuff'ed. lol. but later that month i got a letter from the State saying that one more offense and i wouldve had to take defensive driving classses.

.....and i got caught speeding last year. 70mph in a 50. neadless to say i was speeding, but did not see a speed limit sign posted. and all the state troopers were out that friday because it was the weekend before Easter. (i still cant understand how a 2-lane highway is 65mph, and when TWO 2-lane highways merge to form a 4-lane, the Speed limit drops to 50mph) but i had to take the defensive driving classes, and i havent lost my liscence. so i can still drive thankfully. i wouldnt know what to do if i couldnt. i LOVE to drive. (look how many miles i put into TDU. LMAO)

...im also happy to find out last time i looked @ my car insurance policy, that the first speeding ticket i got is now off my record. so im glad. my premium is going to go down once it renews

[Pherelas]

With this age thing I'm just gunna get it I think at 16 which is a real pain. They say experience comes with age but that's a load of rubbish to be fair, experience comes with experience if that makes sense, you have to have to drive a car and work everything out before you can get any experience. There will still be a 27 accident rate for first year drivers they will just be a year older.

 

Baxie, your story, the people driving the Cosworth were stupid and should be locked up because they are plain idiot but not all young people are like that. They were just arrogant people (trying to be polite) who believe they own the road and have every right to go at stupid speeds. What where they driving a Cosworth for anyway, i wouldn't say no to a limited engine size like they have on bikes over here. Because of this and as tragic as that story is a rise in the age limit will do nothing because there will all way be people who drive dangerously.

[Nipper]

I havent posted here for a while but this thread made me want to...

 

I have been driving since i was 11 (offroad ofcourse) and i used to think it was funny as hell to scare the crap outta people and driving around fast, but i soon learnt when i flipped the car off a hidden rock by the side of the road, i have never driven like an arse since that day, it properly shook me up, most new drivers to the roads have never experienced a car crash, thus they are not aware or afraid of the consequences. There are too many TV Shows that have people smashing a car off a cliff or w/e and the driver walking away unhurt, it makes people think they are invincible.

 

So the ones to blame are unexperienced drivers (not underage, under experienced), Government, and most of all TV and Films.

 

sorry for dragging an old thread up but i felt that needed to be said :)

[HavockJoker]

They want to raise the legal age from 17 to 18 and propose a minimum of a years learning to drive as well as a zero limit on alchol whilst driving and no passengers for people under 20 from 11pm to 5am. This is because 27% of young drivers have accidents in there 1st year of driving.

 

From Top Gear

 

Yo Nodz do you live in New Jersey??? Cause this if you do that is so gay, I live in Jersey I'm going to be Sophomore and now I have to wait another year because some people don't have any common sense. This is really gay.

[eleKtro]

I only turned 17 month ago. Better get my provisional license.

[Speed]

Turning 17 in November, I think I should be Ok, not long to go :)

[Nodz86]

Yo Nodz do you live in New Jersey??? Cause this if you do that is so gay, I live in Jersey I'm going to be Sophomore and now I have to wait another year because some people don't have any common sense. This is really gay.

 

 

No I don't, I live in Essex, England

[Pherelas]

What kind of a time scale is this on, this is the govenment so people who arn't even born yet will get though. Anyway I really hope they keep it till after March.

[Speed]

What kind of a time scale is this on, this is the govenment so people who arn't even born yet will get though.

 

Lol that made me laugh so +Rep :)

[Nodz86]

This was on the BBC news at 6 tonight and they said the Government want to publish what they want to do in the autumn, so about late sept early Oct. Then it will have to go through parliament which could take weeks or months depending on what they want to change then they will have to choose a date for this to come into effect.

So it'll probably come ionto effect around April next year. That is just a guess.

[Pherelas]

The Lords will say no, they always do.

[Baxie]

Running the risk of sounding both patronizing and condescending here.

 

Don't misunderstand me. It sucks being the person who gets hit by laws that are made by people it doesn't. But this thread has presented nothing in the ways of solid arguments against the proposed changes in the law.

 

The arguments between those it hits are always: "Because we really want to!" while the lawmakers draw up statistics, which cannot be considered at all untrue, but which can easily be read a variety of issues into. This in effect turning the previously mentioned targetgroup on to the argument: "Well that is just a small group of people giving the rest of us a bad name." To which the lawmakers reply: "Well, if this law can prevent the loss of human life, you need to come up with a better reason other than: We really want to!"

 

They're right. Every single argument in this thread can be and has been repeated in discussions and law-shaping banning certain privileges from certain population groups all over the world.

 

Guns for instance is always a dangerous issue in America, and while some are working to legislate against home ownership of firearms, those that are opposed to gun-control head for the trenches and start dusting off the: "I want the guns to protect my family!"

The hypothetical reasoning behind this is countered by the evenly hypothetical counterpoint: "If all guns were banned, you didn't need yours!" And eventually everything boils down to statistics, which show that more people are killed by accidents involving guns each year, than lives were saved by the defender carrying a firearm. And does these statistics really show that? Who is to say? Statistics are a very loose stanadard with which to measure the world we live in, but it IS the best way we have.

And when the shouting and namecalling and partisan political agendas subside the realization is that mainly Americans have guns, in spite of every piece of investigations in the subject shows that America has more than 10 times the annual deaths involving firearms than europe which spans more than 20 countries and nationalities and has more than twice the population hitting 710 million with the States hitting 300 million.

 

At the same time the National Rifles association states that accidental firearms fatalitites are racking up 649, including 63 children. These numbers, statistics say, would be drastically fewer if guns were illegal in the United States.

 

So what does this have to do with raising the legal limits of driving a car?

 

Again. Statistics shows that the higher the age of the driver the less chance of an accident. 80 percent of all accidents have involved a person between the age of 18 to 24 here in Denmark. I dread the numbers had we a legal age that were two year lower.

The legal ages of consent, of criminal prosecution and the legal age of the right to vote are based on national averages read through statistics and legislated through processes of those elected. All this for a reason. They are usually those best suited for decisions. If you don't agree with them, then don't vote for them.

 

I know it sucks to be 15 and not have the right to do anything, and even more so losing something that you are just about to get, because of what other morons does. But most of the arguments against in this thread have nothing of value as to why the legal age should be kept.

 

The arguments of the government and legislature claims, well documentedly so, that a higher legal age of driving will save lives.

 

If asked, why it should be kept at 16, and with that point in front of you, you need something better than: "Because I really want to."

 

Well?

[Pherelas]

I think my comment on the fact that it won't make any difference still stands. People don't have the experience in driving so they make mistakes and that causes all the accidents and loss of life. If it is raised to 18 then people won't have the experience in driving they would have had though there years of driving at 17 so will mistakes at 18 not 17.

 

I think the best bet is to limit the engine size to 1.3 for your first three years or something and make the practical test a lot harder so you have to be spot on. I also don't think you should be allowed to keep on taking your test until you pass, there should be a fail you have to take 4 more lessons or something.

 

Safety is very important but I truly believe raising the age by a year will make any difference. There is more to it than "Because I really want to" but then again if this was not the case no one would learn to drive until they absolutely have to.

 

Oh one more thing, people when they go to college can go and get proper jobs and this may involve driving to them. If its raised to 18 some people may not be able to afford to go though college because there are a lot of expensive stuff you have to get to go, for example my bus pass next year is well over £400 and if you relied on getting job you can't get to. (Yes I know driving is expensive as well but that can be covered by the job as well lol).