Tool831: TDUC Mod Shop

[Tool831]

Hello all, I would like to say that I may be resigning from modding. It may not be soon

 

There is just a few things that is causing issue's for me, even alot of modeler permissions.

--------

 

These are the things that are really causing issue's:

 

1: Alot of people are not thanking the modeler's, they take the time to send me a model and grant me permission. All they want in return is a "Thanks for letting tool do this for TDU" or something like it. Just a thanks to them would mean alot to me and them even if they are not in the forum. Due to this Icekid and I believe another modeler has put a hold on giving me models due to lack of people actually acknowledging him or even thanking in my threads.

 

Icekid has told me even that he gets ignored in my threads regardless if its infomation or anything like it, its like users have a short attention span.

 

I find that understandable.

 

2: The amount of people attitude's has been also pushing alot of modelers back from giving me permission or even joining the forum. I will be honest I do have my crazy moments and retarded fights with others. It does get out of hand with all people being sarcastic, moderators do an excellent job though its mainly the posters regardless even if their post has been deleted sometimes.

--------------

Now my issue's.

 

3:Sorry but I have to say this to the users: This is not trying to start an argument as much as it looks like it. Its the only way I can express the way I feel.

 

Shark971: Where in the hell, did it say you can edit my textures or even provide info on how to make them "Good quality" I do know what I am doing otherwise I wouldn't be here today. It's like you do not trust me in my converting or even mods. This also has been picked out by a creator seeing you post with the diablo textures in my thread. I was lucky enough to get that post deleted.

 

Kurgan777: You seem to forget that you cannot add new cars to TDU, so I have to replace what I have in TDU yet you fail to understand regardless if a car has been replaced 5 times, I cannot do anything about that. You also rant on and on about physics swaps, If you cannot swap my physics do them yourself the program that is in English and very very straight forward, so I fail to understand you complain to me about it. You also seem to think you have the answers for everything, what are you jesus?..

 

TDUZoqqer: Stop using ":rolleyes:" and regardless of if I try and help you, you act towards me like I'm some huge bully pulling your hair.

 

Minime: You really stop.. That's all I gotta say. You try and start agruements even at the slightest thing I even say.

------------------------

 

I know I haven't been the most polite or even most helpful person, hell you could all hate my guts for I know. so it is fair enough to say "Why is tool saying this crap, he should just shut up" however I'm not gonna regardless.

 

They do allow me to convert privately though won't allow me to release it public due to people on TDUC. If nothing changes then I will have to resign cause at the moment it doesn't look like I will be doing mods for awhile seeing im getting no permission's lately.

 

All I can say positive, is that the TDUCentral Staff are excellent. They move my threads when reported, they erase post's for me. Some even delete threads or unlock threads. I really cannot ask for more. :) So they are really spot on. ;) (Don't worry diablo I'm not trying to get anything from you)

 

I do hope you guys understand or at least see if something could be done. Though as far as I know I won't be doing mods this week. Which sucks due to this is my last week for alot of mods due to myself starting Collage next week.

[Loz]

I agree with you on this rant.

 

The first point is to me seems the most powerfull. A Thankyou can make or break a mod. As you said, no "Thanks" makes modelers unwilling to send over a model. Proper recognition means alot.

 

The second. I think a quote from another thread will sum this up possibly.

 

Is this a joke? Most are just conversions with bits added onto it or parts from other games put on to it. It is not f**cking hard to cut off the roof from the Supra to make it into a targa, anyone can do that. It is like a freaking 5 minutes max. Connecting polygons? [sarcasm]OMFG that is soooo hard isn't? Getting parts from other cars, cutting them off and connecting them to the model your converting and maybe resizing them is so hard. Deleting polygons needs skill doesn't it? Moving and stretching polygons takes such a long time, only such skilled human beings could do such things.[/sarcasm] You guys do make it seem so hard. Sure some things you have done takes some knowledge of modeling and modding but most of them are just conversions and little things added into it or changed. Something like deleting the roof off the Pagani Zonda is not hard work, with that shape it's really easy. Most of modding is just basic stuff, it took you 1 year to know how to make the interior look normal(ish).

 

That negative attitude isn't supporting out modders and so on. It's just ugly. That quote implies that modders are eliteist prats. I happen to know that even basic stuff can be quite tricky. I tried once on The Sims 2 with several tutorials and so on and still failed miserably. Since TDU is a different format, that probally only complicates the matter. Cut them some slack.

 

Point 3. I've not much to add here as it's on more of a personal level.

 

Another trend i have noticed here that could be an attribute to giving up modding, are all the newer members here, just popping into the threads downloading the mod, say it doesn't work because they didn't read the readme, then in the same thread, request another mod. if i were a modder, that would de-motivate me if i kept seeing all these things.

 

The staff here do a bang up job with all the threads :).

 

Another thing relating to the last sentence. Most people expect mods to be done the instant a thread is up, or atleast replying in the thrwad asking when it's done. With the previous complications i mentioned, another thing that gets in the way is real life. These guys just can't pump out mods all the time, school, family and othr stuff is more of a priority to them that please some random poeple on an internet forum.

 

P.S: Thankyou to all the great modelers that allow their models to be converted by Tool for TDU.

[TDUZoqqer]

TDUZoqqer: Stop using ":rolleyes:" and regardless of if I try and help you, you act towards me like I'm some huge bully pulling your hair.

erm... what?:oook: I am real glad if you help me everytime... But: I'm just glad IF you help me. You helped me maybe 3 times around, and i 3 times said 'thanks Tool'

 

I respect you like you me, so dont't make arguments like this.

[T3hReaper91]

Couldn't agree more with Tool.

 

I understand exactly where Tool is coming from as i am in the same situation. Hence the lack of mods from me but i am sitting quite until i have fully decided what i will do.

 

I understand if Tool does stop modding as he is also starting college next week so he will have little time to do mods anyway.

 

Thanks to Tool but big Thanks to the Modelers that send Tool the amazing models to make into TDU.

[Shy Guy]

It will be a sad day for TDUC Mod Shop if you quit modding, but for the first point I think maybe putting the modeler's name in the thread name would get them acknowledged(For example: "IceKid84/Tool831: Aston Martin Vantage V600" or "IceKid84 & Tool831: Aston Martin Vantage V600" rather than just putting only your name on the title like you do with mods from NFS Shift or Juiced 2. iirc there was a BMW Z4 mod which had both yours and reaper's usernames in the title and both got credit for it.(Was a long time ago so I'm not 100% sure)

 

I also liked a lot of the models the modelers sent Tool to convert, especially the Vantage V600 and Diablo SV.

[Tool831]

It will be a sad day for TDUC Mod Shop if you quit modding, but for the first point I think maybe putting the modeler's name in the thread name would get them acknowledged(For example: "IceKid84/Tool831: Aston Martin Vantage V600" or "IceKid84 & Tool831: Aston Martin Vantage V600" rather than just putting only your name on the title like you do with mods from NFS Shift or Juiced 2. iirc there was a BMW Z4 mod which had both yours and reaper's usernames in the title and both got credit for it.(Was a long time ago so I'm not 100% sure)

 

That's a good idea actually. :)

 

Though I am still stuck on all these permissions declining.

 

I also liked a lot of the models the modelers sent Tool to convert, especially the Vantage V600 and Diablo SV.

 

Yes, but you don't thank them. You say you like the model or the car but it doesn't tell them that you thanked them for modeling it out etc.

[Urban]

Why do modders always have to argue? A proper modder should only care about his work, his mods. Not go around other modders' topics and make silly comments. This is the main thing which starts the flame. This sounds for all the modders on TDUC.

If you don't have something good to say, just keep it for yourself. Let the genuine TDUC members make the constructive comments.;)

[T3hReaper91]

Why do modders always have to argue? A proper modder should only care about his work, his mods. Not go around other modders' topics and make silly comments. This is the main thing which starts the flame. This sounds for all the modders on TDUC.

If you don't have something good to say, just keep it for yourself. Let the genuine TDUC members make the constructive comments.;)

 

That was helpful because??

[GallardoLP560dash4]

My first day of TDU modding may be tool's last, so sad :(

 

Tool, I 100% agree and both me and TomWin have experienced this in the WR2 community. A lot of people have the negative impatient attitude and there are only a few decent members. For example, when me and Tom have worked SO hard to get permission of a good LP670-4 SV model, the forum thanks Tom and me. Not the original author. Sometimes, all people need is a "thank you". Do people find it so hard to type those 8 letters?

 

It would be a real shame if you did stop modding, I've been enjoying TDU again lately, 90% due to your amazing supercar mods (gotta give the other 10% to the wonderful tools and great sounds). I think Shy Guy's idea is pretty good though. Though it would be a shame, having experienced this before, I understand and support your decision. Good luck in college, work to get a Lamborghini:D.

[dredgy]

As I don't really care who mods or who nots, I'll just say I somewhat disagree with most of what you are saying.

 

1. Yes, a thank you is nice. It may make you feel slightly more validated and important. And as we all know there is nothing more important than feeling important on an internet community.

 

IceKid isn't getting thanked because he's not the one packaging it. It's not the name most people to remember to thank. Same with a lot of bands - the lead singer (Michael Jackson, Bono, Jon Bon Jovi) generally gets credited with most of the work and while they do do a lot of work, it's the songwriters, producers and intrumentalists that put in just as much effort and are never the ones to get the credit.

 

If you aren't going to release the project for a price, you have to release it for free. And there are 2 ways t do that:

 

a)Build it for the community and release it to the community. In this scenario you are building for the community as a customer. Someone you want to use, like and appreciate your mod. So if there is something they don't like about it, it's there job to tell you that it sucks major ass, that the steering wheel is triangular and that the polygons are actually not polygons at all, but circles. It's there right as a customer - you built the product for them and they expect it to work flawlessly and with no bugs.

 

b)Build it for yourself and release it anyway. What I did for TDUPE. Build it for yourself, get what you want out of it and just have fun doing it. Then who gives a crap what people think. You had fun, it serves your purpose, so be it. If people love it, cool. If people absolutely slam it, just shrug it off and move on.

 

2. Oh boo hoo, people insult you and your work. Get over it. Simple.

 

Take Microsoft. Every day, on the internet, in the press. Millions of people absolutely slaughter them. Vista was hated by nearly everyone, so what did Microsoft do? Whinge? No. They took action to please the people who hated them, so they renamed VIsta and released it 3 years later as Windows 7, which is enourmously succesful.

 

Just get over it, goes back to the point in number 1, so long as you had fun. If I were you I'd be more fastidious about starting college. Seriously, I haven't had one positive rep for TDUPE since December, I am slightly more concerned about a multi-million dollar contract for a Mega Apartment block on my desk, and a little more concerned that I haven't had sex for 2 weeks when I know my 15 year old niece is getting plenty.

 

If your modding is just a hobby, treat it as such and just get your priorities straight. If you really think the attitude in the mod shop is so bad, stop modding. Or only release mods that you personally want in the game and just don't worry about credit or feeling important or if someone has stolen your mod cause where you are at your life at the moment it really isn't important. If you want to do it as a career, that's somewhat different but you should be using the feedback, negative and positive to build your career.

 

And trust me, if people hold a no bull***** approach to your work, it helps in later life. Using my life as an example, there is a big difference between someone telling me TDUPE is absolute crap that causes the game to crash and someone at Cessna telling me that a bug in my autopilot program causes the plane to crash. Or someone at MICROS, Toyota or Garmin telling me how freaking awesome my software is.

 

3. People are idiots. All of them. Let them say what they want and get over it. You don't even know them and will never see them in real life. Besides, flamewars are somewhat entertaining to watch.

 

4. People please stop saying the word fap. I looked it up the other day...

 

Can't quite remember what my point was, but it was a good one.

[Eudemon]

Why do modders always have to argue? A proper modder should only care about his work, his mods. Not go around other modders' topics and make silly comments. This is the main thing which starts the flame. This sounds for all the modders on TDUC.

If you don't have something good to say, just keep it for yourself. Let the genuine TDUC members make the constructive comments.;)

Very true, just because someone has maybe already made or is in the process of making the same mod as you doesn't mean that you have to belittle or only praise your own. See the differences and respect that the community has access to both. Modding has never only been about only 1 of a certain mod, sure there will always be a favourite and highly rated but to lambaste someone because they are making a mod that has already been made isn't for anyone to say.

 

If you want something different then make it yourself and you will see it is not as easy as some criticisers want to make out. Just getting used to the User Interface of a modelling program is a time stealer itself.

 

I see where Tool and IceKid (plus others) are coming from and to be honest sometimes it is very easy to overlook the quality of a mod because you see it and like it, then your anticipation grows for it's eventual release. Then when this does happen you completely forget about how completely brilliant it is even though you know it is exactly that; brilliant!

 

Unfortunately people always want something for nothing and the majority will always be thankless and just download and run, however the few that do appreciate it (meet the TDUCK'ers) and say so will do so, is there a way to encourage more to do so, not really unfortunately but at the end of the day it all comes down to that person and like I said most are only here for themselves and will not say thank you anyway.

 

That was helpful because??

It offered a valid point.

[NEMMESIS]

This is my first post here, and i only post comments if i have a good reason for that.

 

Im a member of TDUC for some time, and i spend many of my free time test all types of TDU mods, cars, scenarios, gauges and all related to the TDUC, only for one reason i simply love TDU, and i have absolutely sure that everyone in this forum make this things, aprove, desaprove, thanks someone or not, flamewars and all because we simply love TDU, i dont have any idea how many time i spend this last 3 years play this game (on every released plataform ps2, psp, x360, and pc.

 

And i honestly that this is the point, the love and passion for the game, play a game for many time is a prove that you like it, but spend your precious time to make mods for them is a prove of passion, make mods is hard and take a lot of time to get the right way, so Tool831, i understand that spend your time (specialy the modelers) to make mods and the community dont give the right feedback is very very bad, and i honestly, im sorry for be one of those that dont give the right feedback, since that i dont have any posts yet, but i see your attention with the mod scene and i have almost every single mod released in this forum, i see all the progression that you and all modders and modelers (we cannot forget of these guys anymore) make all these time and i ask to you revise your reasons to stop modding, you and all modders make the TDU for PC a better game, this community makes TDU a non-stop play game (you know what i mean ehehe), im simply cant stop play this game even after 2 and half years since it was released for the pc because of the mods that TDUC have and specialy you are the responsable for my addict for TDU ehehehehehe!!!!!!:):):)

 

So all of those things that i sad here is because the TDUC will be very sad when you stop modding, personely i dont want that day comes if if come will be a very sad ones, and please give the permission Modelers of community let Tool and all modders of TDUC continue the superb work done here!!!!!!!!!!:thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

Dont let the passion and the feel about the modding dies man:crying::crying:

 

Im only sharing my point of view because are many people in this community happy with your work like me, the fact is, some of us cant immagine how important is the feedback for modders, so if modders like this, so be it, if i see a mod that i like it i will thank till it bleeds:):):)

 

All for the passion for Cars and TDU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:excited::excited:

 

And sorry for my broken english im from Brazil.

[Tool831]

I see where Tool and IceKid (plus others) are coming from and to be honest sometimes it is very easy to overlook the quality of a mod because you see it and like it, then your anticipation grows for it's eventual release. Then when this does happen you completely forget about how completely brilliant it is even though you know it is exactly that; brilliant!

 

Unfortunately people always want something for nothing and the majority will always be thankless and just download and run, however the few that do appreciate it (meet the TDUCK'ers) and say so will do so, is there a way to encourage more to do so, not really unfortunately but at the end of the day it all comes down to that person and like I said most are only here for themselves and will not say thank you anyway.

 

That's all we need, if some people do say "Thank you" to the modelers and some attitudes become good, I am pretty sure permissions and modelers will pick up again.

 

I know there is some people who get permission still so its not the end of the world/modding but for me when I ask permission I always show them what TDUC is like, so unfortunately they see some people either complaining or ranting on about something. Which really turns them away from giving me the permission im only allowed to do it privately.

 

Like I have said, I'm not quiting modding anytime soon but if permissions for myself does stop then I will have to most likely quit or do something else.

 

2. Oh boo hoo, people insult you and your work. Get over it. Simple.

 

Good point, I do follow this (sometimes) I just ignore most people and move on, or ague and if they try to continue I just ignore. It's what I continue to do. however this thread isn't really about that but I saw you say it and decided to pick it. :) Like I have said though, I have causes issue's and fights ill admit that. Everyone does it, I am not perfect.

----------------

 

I do hope though people do understand what I mean and this thread is not telling and not demanding everyone to say Thanks all the time but at least now and then time when a car is announced or something at least make them feel welcomed that they did model it out.

[Eudemon]

Basically if you're a member, you download the mod and you enjoy the mod then say thanks. It's not that hard, it takes less time to do in fact than it took to register for here.

 

A mod isn't just for Christmas, it's for umm ...a short time afterwards or until you get bored and want to try something else ...uhh yeah.

[shark971]

To start I would say the same thing about mods such as the "Diablo".

In your first post you said that the model comes from a particular person.

But you do not thank more than that in the first post.

So begins by setting an example.

Follows before the modding became what it is now (with shift ... ect) you were glad to find some textures.

And for those textures being able to improve not from you but Djey is he who permits via tdumoddingtool change the size of some files (which provides a better quality).

You start modding for a very long time so it is normal that you got a little ahead of some modder.

But what I never understood you always find an excuse to respond negatively to my queries (and not only mine).

With what you learned you had been able to teach some modder has some trick, but what I was told this was not the case with everyone (negative response).

You do your chosen, but from what I know you do not do your mods from A to Z, so you necessarily need a model and texture to your conversion.

They are very nice to send you their model without knowing that behind you do not share your knowledge Zmodeler to everyone.

Sometimes they tell you that there is a bug in your mod and this is not passed, it's never your fault.

For the Z06 there a bug with the smoke exhaust system (not yet reported in the bug list).

Regarding the texture I do not for recognition but only to help.

These textures do not come from the 3d model?

To improve the latter the only solution is to use the position of different parts (not the same texture I use, it comes from google image) because the mapping of the model remains the same.

All your mods could be improved with a little determination ,with all modder on TDUcentral there is more than I thought possible.

TDuzoqqer, thunderhawk, Minime' ect ...

Each has experience and you could learn a lot from others.

There is very little modder who do it for passion.

And for me, sharing is part of the passion.

When I see some mod is complete from A to Z made by Xioxorn or 2cv super GT I say respect, for there the passion you felt it.

Through eleanor of thunderhawk and Lp670-4 SV TDU zoqqer not only the conversion but a real editing work.

What you never really did and I would love to see it.

I hope especially that you can not stop modding because there are many more models available (shift is limited and the 3d model free, too).

After I always thank your for your mods, I am a legit person.

We go more or less all in the same direction for a better TDU.

Me what my problem is that some uses for TDUPE cheater.

So the spirit TDU becomes less and less what it was before.

I am not here to get excited about a game

Then there are those who die of hunger.

 

I hope as you have understood.

[Rassva]

I say that people who complain should make their own mods some of them (who complain) don't even know to install them .

Diablo why don't you ban the ones who complain or insult the modder. Even when the mod may be ugly you mustn't insult the modder because he worked a lot

[t.]

Diablo why don't you ban the ones who complain or insult the modder.

 

Because you can't operate like that. Further more we currently have a messy situation where we have modders insulting modders.

 

Recently there has been a crop of new faces creating mods, compared to the old days. A quick trip to a mod thread and you'll see that as fast as someone has thanked the modder they have posted a request hidden in a question.

 

Modders are busy people like the rest of us, with other commitments outside of TDUC. (Life outside of mods, hard to believe right?) They can't be expected to work on their own projects and offer 24/7 support to other peoples as well.

 

Can we implement a link hiding option? The kind where by the link is revelaed upon replying or simply clicking a thanks button. This way people who are better off not talking needn't bother.

 

Finally, more emphasis should be made on who the model came from so people are more aware of that persons importance in the cycle.

[T3hReaper91]

Can we implement a link hiding option? The kind where by the link is revelaed upon replying or simply clicking a thanks button. This way people who are better off not talking needn't bother.

 

Its a great idea but tbh wouldn't work well...

 

It would either just be clicked so people can get the mod and then it has no meaning etc.

 

Or people will just re-host the mod else where.

 

Its a great suggestion but people would find ways around it.

[Eudemon]

An option like that twm would mean the lurkers couldn't get their hands on it either.

 

BTW sometimes all it takes to get feedback is a simple: Feedback and comments appreciated! :) as well as saying hope you enjoy the mod!. You'd be amazed at the times people would quote this little excerpt and say something like I did, great work!.

 

Sometimes you have to give in order to get back.

[Rassva]

Hey , some people are just selfish. If you get something that you want or need , like a mod its logical that you should say thanks , right?

is there a rule or something about BAD WORDS?

 

[mod edit:] Please do not swear or use asterisk's to mimic swearing, thanks.

[And3rs]

is there a rule or something about BAD WORDS?

Yes.

 

[and there is one for how short a post can be]

[you-paul]

tool , i didn`t download a lot of mods from you , but i saw the photos of them , and i really like them . i will be very sad when you leave the forum `cos you are a very good modder , and i know how bad it is when some one download but not leave a comment . Any way i didn`t say thanks when i downloaded you mods . But i will make it here right now !

 

 

Thanks to you and who helped you for this cars : Audi R8 2010 . Laborghini Diablo SV , Mercedes Benz SL65 hard top and the Nissan 300ZX ! I hope you will be not sad on me cos i didn`t say thanks at right time !

 

any way i understood you cause but will ne a very sad day when you will leave us!

 

 

 

sorry for my very bad english ..

[xiorxorn]

Hello,

 

I am modeler, originally from GTA community... As 2CVSuperGT began to convert my models to TDU in 2008, the car modding was completely new and converters were very thanked for this. But the peole that thanks the 3d modeler were very rare, and most of them believe that all this work was made by 2CVSuperGT himself.

 

We were very disapointed by this, but it comes at a moment when new cars are very rare. But today there is more people that can see the work but that is still very rare.

It's only because me and 2CVSuperGT are friends that I continue to allow him to convert my work for TDU.

When we play online in TDU a lot of players stop to thank him, but nobody don't remind my name as more than 50% of 2CVSuperGT's release are based to my work.

 

I think that this problem is specific to TDU community and it's very dangerous for it if you want that modding continue for a long time on this game and next.

 

In GTA community, it is forbidden to post a mod whitout a clear mention in the title of the origin of 3D model. You can read in title some letters like SCR for scratch made or CONV for convertion. This kind of little things make all the difference but that not the only way.

On respectable community you can found different categories for authors and there is rarely one author of the mod but if he made it from A to Z (like 2CVSuperGT's Bugatti)

->

Original author gives credit to the guy that made the car

Converters gives credit to converters

 

Maybe the format of "TDUC's release" must be updated to allow new modelers to give their works to this community whithout the sensation of violation.

 

 

By this way I hope all players can easily understand the work of all the guys that work on it, and thanks all these people.

[Sambo]

Firstly, can I say that without the hard work of all the modelers and from you Tool, the TDU community wouldn't be ANYWHERE NEAR as strong as it is today! I want to take this opportunity to thank ALL the modelers that contribute to the HUGE range of EXTREMELY high quality vehicle mods available on this forum!! I can say without a doubt that I enjoy playing with modded vehicles more than with the original ones!!

 

That said, to be honest, it's not THAT easy to spot a modder's identity:

 

1998 Aston Martin V8 Vantage V600

Replaces: Aston Martin DB7 Zagato

Converted by: Tool831

Edited by: Tool831

Model From: Icekid

Installer tool By: Djey

Perhaps as someone pointed out earlier, the modder's name should be more prominent (ok, a lot more prominent! :D) Currently it kinda gets lost in the small print. Also, many of the models are taken from other games so you kinda get used to that and so the ones that someone has made from scratch don't really stand out...

Keep up the great work guys & ignore those idiots who just want to bag everything anyone does!!!

[xiorxorn]

Originally Posted by Tool831

1998 Aston Martin V8 Vantage V600

Replaces: Aston Martin DB7 Zagato

Converted by: Tool831

Edited by: Tool831

Model From: Icekid

Installer tool By: Djey

 

3 times Tool831(author of post, author of convertion editor????? 2 weeks of work maximum)

1 time IceKid(model... in fact 3d model and texture author... between 12 and 25 weeks of work minimum)

1 time Djey(Installer programer and conception... still on developpement)

0 time Oleg for ZModeler2

 

that's one of the reason that people don't know that they must thank IceKid too. The converter is too present. Okay the convertion to TDU is harder than convertion for other games, but the creators are only in "Model", "installer".

 

And the Edited mention is just ridiculous, it's the main part of convertion work.

So don't cry that authors don't want to release their work on TDu with this kind of egocentric use. The presentation causes confusion.

 

I know who are real authors of main mods in TDUc they named Juiced2, EAGames, IceKid, Tonn, 2CVSuperGT, Krazymond, Mike_sg, Squir, KennyBZH... and so on. Thanks guys