TDUC 'No Peformance Mods' Policy

[Sambo]

(Please read my post before voting)

 

PLEASE NOTE!!

First and foremost; the intention of this thread is NOT to facilitate the sharing of actual performance mods / info, I have only created it to discuss the current restriction of this! PLEASE DO NOT POST PERFORMANCE MODDING INFORMATION IN THIS THREAD as it will be locked or deleted and then we won't be able to discuss it anymore! :)

 

 

I understand that currently, the posting of information, mods or tools relating to the modification of any vehicle performance or handling parameters, is prohibited. I am unable to find any official policy on this (eg; in the forum rules post) nor can anyone point me to such information, however, I have seen that this in fact is a rule that is enforced.

 

In the absence of any official written policy on this subject I have determined from reading other posts / threads on the subject that the reason behind the ban seems to be that people don't want to enable more players to cheat on the TDU online servers. I can understand this concern and am also annoyed when I see that I cannot possibly beat a 4000km/hr top speed on a radar run, and so the challenge is ruined for me.

 

 

However, I don't believe that this fear is actually founded in fact.

As far as I have been able to determine, the facts are as follows:

- It is impossible to connect to an online TDU server (& sync with other players) with modified Horsepower, Torque or Top Speed settings effectively making these file based performance mods single player only

- The only method of modifying the main vehicle performance parameters online is via direct modification of memory locations after connection to the TDU online servers, which is a different method entirely to file based modifications

 

 

I am a big fan of performance mods for driving games, but not because I want to cheat! I import models made available by the community's talented modelers and modders in order to extend the game and enable me to drive vehicles which are not part of the game's originally provided models. In conjunction with this, I apply extensive performance & handling modifications in order to replicate the imported car's real-world capabilities. This is somewhat of a passion for me and I really enjoy the process and the result. I also really like to share the fruits of my labour with others. To me, only being able to change the appearance of a car and not it's performance is HIGHLY unsatisfying. It's like those 'kitset supercars' that you see around sometimes, sure it looks like a Lamborghini, but underneath its a dodgy old VW Beatle!!

 

So I guess my point really is:

Considering that it's impossible to connect to an TDU online server with any modifications to the main performance parameters, is there really any reason to prevent information regarding file based performance & handling mods from being posted?

 

I do however agree that posting information regarding memory based performance modding should be restricted.

 

 

Thanks for voting :)

 

 

 

* /me retreats to storm cellar to wait out the flame wars... * :lol:

 

EDIT (17/9): Updated post to reflect new information regarding file based performance mods online (see further down thread for details)

[Iced_Bullet]

- It is impossible to connect to an online TDU server (& sync with other players) with modified game files

I have seen a few mods which run another .exe disguised as tdu.exe, or another one beside tdu.exe, thus bypassing the online checks. I am aware TDU:Modding tools is able to modify databases now, however havn't looked into that in months, so can't comment.

 

I can understand this concern and am also annoyed when I see that I cannot possibly beat a 4000km/hr top speed on a radar run, and so the challenge is ruined for me.

Then surely you should be on the same wavelength as us? Database file modifications cannot be allowed on here in the spirit of fair online gaming?

 

is there really any reason to prevent information regarding file based performance & handling mods from being posted?

Yes, to stop cheating. If we allow one database mod, how do we determine which is aiding cheating and which isn't?

 

Plenty of normal and friendly members have used database modding files to increase the speed of their cars ONLINE to be more realistic, which is understandable. However when this comes to races, and duels, this is an unfair advantage. Thus isn't allowed on these boards.

 

I leave you with these questions:

- How do you propose we, as moderators, determine (without spending our free time and effort with each mod) which database mods will be able to bypass the online checks and which will stop you logging in online?

- What if someone with poor understanding of English sees a database mod they would like, they might be unaware that they are downloading a mod which would either blacklist thies IP, get them blocked, having TDU block logging into an online account. Is that fair?

[Sambo]

You misread my post. As far as I know, the only way to modify vehicle performance online is via memory based parameter modification, it is not possible to achieve this via file based modification.

[Iced_Bullet]

I re-edited.

[Sambo]

I leave you with these questions:

- How do you propose we, as moderators, determine (without spending our free time and effort with each mod) which database mods will be able to bypass the online checks and which will stop you logging in online?

 

Ok, fair point, but I don't see this as a particularly big problem. If hacked .exe files are required to bypass the online checks, then prohibit them! There are already restrictions in place regarding posting of performance mods and these are effectively upheld. All that is needed is a change in policy. In any case, I don't believe that you can connect online with a modified TDU.exe file since patch v1.66a either!

 

- What if someone with poor understanding of English sees a database mod they would like, they might be unaware that they are downloading a mod which would either blacklist thies IP, get them blocked, having TDU block logging into an online account. Is that fair?

 

Is it not true that ANY changes to TDU client files will result in failure to connect online? In which case the risk is already there! Also, you get kicked off servers (or not allowed to connect) by running the wrong patch version (eg v1.45) which doesn't result in a ban. It gives you the same error because it's using the same method to determine whether your game files are 'valid'. They are not trying to determine if you are trying to 'cheat' at this point, it's just a checksum failure (hence the 'Incoherence in the game data' error which appears whether you have the wrong patch version or modified database files).

[Sponge]

Performance hacks of any kind are DISALLOWED on TDU:C, whether they're online or offline. Simple. If you want performance hacks, go to another site.

[Eudemon]

Feedback and your views on this matter is appreciated. If it blows out of proportion however then it will be locked and the matter will be closed.

 

Play nice. :D

[Sambo]

Thanks Diablo, I appreciate it!

 

Any chance of re-opening the poll?

[Sambo]

Ok, Diablo made a good comment here:

From what people are posting and Djey is showing, editing these factors does not mean you will get banned when hitting the online portion of the game. That is the main reason for our current stance on this issue. Believe me we can see both sides and had a long discussion with Djey about it. We're not only prohibiting for the sake of it, we looked into and weighed up the pros against the cons and at the moment the cons are more experience destroying for those online than not having them

 

We're always looking at it though.

 

So are you saying Diablo that it IS possible to join an online game using ONLY file based mods? If so, surely just this information can be restricted and not general performance modding info? I know for a fact that doing a 'standard' file mod won't allow you to connect and I believe that if any of the checked files (which includes the file containing the performance information) fails a checksum test then you are booted. So I can't see how this would work other than a very sophisticated .exe wrapper hack, as the main game .exe is also subject to a checksum test.

[Eudemon]

Poll is open again and the best person to ask of this is probably Djey.

[EW]

No, you play the game properly and if you want to cheat go somewere else, i like the fact the website has rules it stops people form being banned without knowing why.

[RedCarDriver]

My personal view is that, if people are playing single-player mode or not entering races, and not ramming into people either, and people aren't getting kicked or banned, it seems fine.

 

HOWEVER, if the potential for abuse is there, it is quite likely that people will abuse these tools to race on the leaderboards, or be jerks about it, which is quite a bad thing. Plus, if we go farther than the point we have reached at this point, banning / kicking may occur.

 

Well... actually, the leaderboards are pretty much broken anyway. :P People still cheat on them, to the extent where a lesser cheat wouldn't be a problem.

 

All in all, I would say "yes, allow them", but there's so much abuse potential that - unless limits are in place somehow - it shouldn't be allowed.

 

Besides, the amount of editing in Modding Tool 1.11 is both fair, and sufficient for most people's "needs" (wants). :)

[Sambo]

What people seem to keep forgetting is that the ONLY currently viable (ie; after patch v1.66a) method to hack performance in TDU online is via memory hack methods.

 

Memory hacking is in a completely distinct category to file based hacking so surely we can amend the rules to allow file based hacks but not memory based ones!?

 

I'm prepared to be proven wrong on this point, but so far, despite my asking, no one has been able to prove that this is not the case.

 

No, you play the game properly and if you want to cheat go somewere else, i like the fact the website has rules it stops people form being banned without knowing why.

 

Woodruff, I think you're missing my point, and the wording of the question. I am talking about offline/single player only mods.

[Djey]

Hi all,

 

I'm very busy in my life at the moment, so I can't tell a lot about it. You can modify some car performance (wheel drive) and access online mode as well.

 

@Sambo: if you want clues, just use latest Modding Tools and see what it can bring, by yourself. And it's not memory editing - database only.

Btw, I won't publish the latest version here before everything will be resolved, but I think you'll get it on the web without probs.

[Sambo]

Ok, I did some testing online with modded database files online and Djey is right, you can connect with modified '# wheel drive' settings. So obviously I have to partially concede my 'can't connect with modded game files' point.

 

HOWEVER, from my testing I have discovered that you can't connect with modified HorsePower, Torque or Top Speed. Obviously the checks are done on a per-parameter basis and the major performance based parameters are the ones being checked.

 

I know people will say that '# wheel drive' is a performance parameter, but I would argue that the tools available to change this parameter are already available on this board and the argument has been made that the performance difference is negligible.

 

While my original suggestion of making a distinction between file based and memory based mods is not as clear cut now, I still think that based on the fact that you can't actually connect after modifying the main performance parameters that there continues to be little reason to keep the ban on file based performance modding.

 

I will update my original post to reflect this new information.

[RedCarDriver]

Memory hacking == trainers anyway, and trainers are cheap / lame and should be prohibited here regardless.

 

Basically everything which has been included in 1.11 has been tested (by Djey and by forum members' use) to be safe online, and it has a negligible effect on performance, so I say that those should definitely (still) be allowed.

[zo6dude]

Whats point if you cheat really? Seems like a waste of fun and money to me.

[RamseyOfficial]

I fear that things will go overboard online. So many kids and noobs will be speeding around like retards. But hey, I can just cruise with non cheaters, right?

[StrickenHAWK?]

trainers anyway, and trainers are cheap / lame and should be prohibited here regardless.

 

They already are.

[Iced_Bullet]

I fear that things will go overboard online. So many kids and noobs will be speeding around like retards. But hey, I can just cruise with non cheaters, right?

+ don't foget the increased traffic spawning and torrette like driving caused by increased uses of database mods.

[RedCarDriver]

They already are.

 

I thought "should continue to be prohibited here" was implicit in my statement. ;)

 

@ Iced: lulz :lol:

 

Anyway, I think this is pretty much decided; any particular reason we're continuing to bump this? (myself included)

[RRacer]

i lately had a online race (it was a dragrace on wakiki beach) when i saw the highscore it was 601 km/h i know that's impossible

[Tool831]

i lately had a online race (it was a dragrace on wakiki beach) when i saw the highscore it was 601 km/h i know that's impossible

 

Welcome to physics editing by N00bs. ;)

[Streak115]

Well, technically the fastest speed possible on the game is 275 to 280 mph I think. So 443 to 451 kmh or at least that is the fastest I have gotten to with the Koennigsegg.

[Sponge]

293mph is the fastest possible speed. You can't go any more than that due to the Segg's rev limiter.